Two things:
1) I did a blog entry this week on VP candidate Sarah Palin, specifically citing some of her record on wolf management. You might appreciate it:
http://markingtime4now.wordpress.com/2008/09/04/sarah-palin-pit-bull-or-just-plain-bull/
2) I noted the absence of the International Wolf Center in Ely, MN on your wolf resources list. Any reason for that?

No, I regret this site only comes in English. ‘;-(

cheers, Bill

I clearly disagree with such methods. Reason? Now many humans want to be studied like this? This is important point, where ethics can lose grounds and fall into usual justification. Be higher!

OK, maybe I get circuses, but if apes are treated well is there something inherently wrong about a gorilla being put in front of a camera? I’m not sure I following Spain’s reasoning on that one.

–TMG
http://themoralguy.blogspot.com

Thanks for responding to my post…always good to know somebody reads these things! I think we’re in agreement about there being some importance to making sure people learn the skills needed to become gainfully employed.

But you asked me to explain what I meant when I mentioned valuing “education as an end in itself.” I initially thought that was a shorthand way of pointing to what you meant when you talked about studying the humanities, but looking back I see we’re probably talking about two different propositions:

(i) Studying the humanities and natural sciences makes an individual more well-rounded and gives us a better idea of how we ought to live.

(ii) Studying the humanities and natural sciences is an end in itself, i.e., there’s just something inherently valuable in knowing about various subjects, apart from the consequences that knowledge might cause.

It seems in your post you were thinking of (i) and I was talking about (ii). Regardless, both are good reasons (at least to me) to place a high value on *education,* not future-job training.

–TMG
http://themoralguy.blogspot.com

The Education Department is controlled by advisers who have insufficient regard for the liberal arts and instead are intent on judging colleges largely by their ability to provide economically measurable talent for industry, a recently departed top official told The Chronicle.

Ms. Jones has left the Department in part for this reason.

You can read the article, Liberal Arts Undervalued by Education Department, Official Says After Quitting at the Chronicle’s website, http://www.chronicle.com.

Regarding your second point, I’m not clear about what you mean when you say “education as an end in itself.” Can you unpack that a bit?

Finally, given the high level of government corruption by corporations, I’m not at all surprised that there would be politicians who would see benefits in a populace so focused on their jobs that they don’t have time to think about politics.

Thanks again.
Karin

1. We should be careful not to over-emphasize studying the humanities or natural sciences in place of job training: the fact is, people *do* need skills to support themselves financially, and the more job training a person has, the better off she is.

2. I think your last comment–that “that’s how politicians like it”–isn’t very fair. Lots of people who have and do hold political office care deeply about education as an end in itself. Besides which, I’m not sure I even see a motivation for why politicians would be glad people only care about learning to get a better job.

And again, please feel free to comment back at me!

–TMG

But I don’t think that goes very far in showing that we ought to give pigs more consideration, dignity, value or whatever: it certain isn’t consistent to say that dogs are inherently better than pigs, but why can’t we say we put more value on a dog’s life and well-being because we’re emotionally attached to them? Instead of saying dogs have more *moral* worth than pigs, we might instead just say that dogs have a greater instrumental value, and so we care more for them.

Also, your claim that both dogs and pigs are sentient is, I think, controversial: I’m not an expert, but as far as I know it’s unclear just how self-aware these animals are.

Also, please feel free to leave me a reply if anyone’s has a comment to what I’ve written; I always appreciate hearing from others!

“I have never heard of dolphins colliding with one another under any circumstances-much less mid-air.”

Dolphins in Scotland and Virginia have been documented ramming each other (and porpoises) to death. We’re probably talking about a tiny minority of dolphins who have that murderous tendency, probably a similar ratio to that which exists in humans. Still, it has happened, FYI.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/01/25/eadolphin125.xml

Personally, while I see the murder of animals for food (especially mammals) as an abomination on par with (perhaps worse than) the most heinous instances of human inhumanity…I don’t see much of an ethical problem (in theory) with confining most wild animals in general, as pets or as gymnasts or as zoological novelties etc., nor do I see too much of an ethical problem with exploiting animals for milk or wool or honey etc. (especially since (again, in theory — I’m aware that conditions are often brutal) they are compensated with a “wage” of shelter and food that is relatively luxurious for non-human animals).

In fact, I think any advocate for animal rights has a moral duty to ignore issues of confinement and non-lethal exploitation for the time being, and instead to focus 100% on stopping lethal consumption until it is made illegal and eradicated. Humans are exploited and confined unfairly (and involuntarily) every day, all over the world.

(Even when it comes to lethal animal testing: For centuries humans have been drafted unwillingly by governments to sacrifice their lives in wars supposedly meant to advance civilization. Just so, so long as animals are “drafted” into genuine scientific wars on disease etc. (as opposed to improving cosmetics or satisfying the sadism of a Harlow) and so long as the animal’s involvement in an experiment is truly superior to inorganic models, and so long as maximum care is taken to minimize the animal’s pain…I don’t see much of a theoretical problem with animal testing, either. We should at the very least, however, be celebrating the sacrifical animals as heroes, and build public monuments in their honor.)

But, as far as I know, despite there being the human equivalent of zoos and testing, there are thankfully no such things as slaughterhouses that murder and dismember humans and turn them into “food”. Perspective, people. Please. Thank you.

So glad to hear your thoughts!
Lisa

You’ve presented some really good pieces of advice in here, especially on tackling ‘demons’.

Steve

My largest concern with the captive marine mammal industry is that it profits from compromising the freedom of another sapient being. My ultimate decision to leave was based on the realization that I was personally profiting off of the animals who I considered to be my best friends.

In my opinion, however, very few issues in this world are wholly black and white with no room for gray and that includes captivity. With all due respect for Dr. Marino and Mr. O’Barry’s positions on this, and their extensive work and expertise in this field, I would feel remiss not to call attention to some of the important and often over-looked nuances in the captivity issue.

Dr. Marino suggests that there is “no compelling data that demonstrates that marine parks have a positive impact on knowledge and attitudes about animal welfare and conservation.” I will not argue this point, but wonder what standard is being used to define compelling and if this is something that could even be quantified.

For instance, one immeasurable effect is the influence seeing marine mammal shows can have on an individual. I will use myself as an example. When I was eight years old, I traveled to Sea World Orlando for the first time. My parents agreed to stay at the park late to watch the nighttime Shamu show. The show was set to the REM song “Night Swimming” and was designed to depict a relationship between Orca and trainer. Throughout this presentation, the Orca and trainer simultaneously engaged in the same swimming behaviors and patterns. As an eight-year-old, I was completely in awe and dedicated myself to achieving that “relationship” with a marine mammal one day.

In reality, it is quite likely that the relationship portrayed at Shamu Stadium that night was merely an exhibition of a chain of trained behaviors and a skilled use of “smoke and mirrors.” I can say with great confidence, however, that the varied relationships I have built with some of the marine mammals I have been lucky enough to work with over the years are quite real. They are true relationships and those individuals – those persons – are friends I will have for life. These great friends taught me about love and forgiveness and have inspired my passion to devote my life towards improving the lives of all marine mammals, captive and wild.

To refer to all dolphin trainers as “professional liars” fails to account for the spectrum of individuality that exists among professionals in this field. Personally, in my years in the industry, I felt a personal moral obligation to answer customer questions as honestly as possible and know most of my colleagues over the years have made the same effort. I did not hesitate to honestly disclose my concerns about captivity and I think one would be hard-pressed to find a marine mammal trainer who has never questioned captivity.

I have never encountered a marine mammal trainer who chose the job for the money, as marine mammal training is not exactly a lucrative career. Can the argument be made that the corporations and private owners who house marine mammals view the animals as commodities and make every effort to maximize profit? Absolutely. Is this a practice that should be lauded or even accepted? No. In my experience, the vast majority of trainers, however, do not enter this field for the business of it, but out of a love for marine mammals. Are these trainers influenced by the “party line” at the facilities where they work? Undoubtedly. Does this mean they do not care individually about each animal with whom they work? No.

It is not difficult to universally condemn the business of captivity and the commoditization of the animals who, through no choice of their own, are the product being marketed. The challenge lies in recognizing the range of individuality, both human and non-human that exists in the captive world.

Sharky’s tragic death shocks, sickens, and saddens me. My heart goes out to all of the animals at Discovery Cove who are grieving the loss of their family member and matriarch, and to the trainers who are mourning the loss of a family member and great friend. Most of all, my heart goes out to Sharky.

Sharky was captured from the wild then spent the last 30 years doing stupid dolphin tricks inside a concrete box.

The Sea World spin machine is hard at work once again trying to convince the media that Sharky simply had an “unfortunate accident”. This is the exact reason I left that multi-billion dollar industry. In order to be successful as a dolphin trainer, one must become a professional lier. One must lie everytime another marine mammal dies. You lie to the media, to the public, and worst of all, one must lie to oneself everyday.

This is an industry of hypocrites and liers.

Kris Stewart is, rightly so, angered by the callous remarks of Sea World upon the tragic death of the dolphin Sharky. This is to be expected from an industry that regards animals as stock in trade and sees this tragedy as a loss of revenue and a decrease in their inventory.

I am a marine mammalogist and have had the opportunity to work at several marine parks in this country over the years. During this time I learned that marine parks are ruled by a Culture of Commoditization and Commercialism that belies any claims that they are interested in educating the public or supporting conservation and welfare. Places like Sea World exist for one reason – entertainment. Despite their laudable-sounding assertions there is no compelling data that demonstrates that marine parks have a positive impact on knowledge and attitudes about animal welfare and conservation.

Sea World and other marine parks that keep captive dolphins and force them to “sing for their supper” cannot be expected to suddenly become conscientious and respectful organizations. It is not in their nature. But we, as potential consumers of these commercial spectacles, can make choices about whether we want to support their continued exploitation of these beautiful, intelligent, social mammals. We can take the path of easy superficial exploitive entertainment or the path to education, environmental awareness, and responsibility. The important point is – they lead in opposite directions.

The “ethos” in this block is LOVE and I am feeling this with Panda, my longhair “rescue” cat at my side, purring away. The electricity is palpable. I have always loved animals and feel a deep kinship with them. I have never understood the scientific “dictum” to avoid anthropomorphism as it does seem to me that when we do this, and it is real, we come closer to the truth about our relationship and we are kindred spirits.

I am following a line of amazing visible synchronicity which I have been recording for a long time. Despite the sadness and terrible burden of sorrow around what is happening in the world with respect to lack of respect to our environment I must believe there is a profound raising of consciousness also happening on the planet, because what I am feeling, quite tangibly, is a movement toward love. Perhaps it’s not too late. We can all of us, working together, get the job done. If not now then when?

With best wishes. I will return to your very wonderful and soul full writings.

Ruth Housman
My Diary is in part at: The Hay Library, The Mel Yoken Collection of Letters, Brown University Providence R.I.

South of the canyon are the Babbitt ranches and Bruce is the guy that was there for Yellowstone and the Blue Range – he must be for it.

Hardly anyone lives on the North Rim and the Grand Canyon Trust runs the only allotments up there.

I think the human factor has been accounted for at GCNP.

Even where you live Lif, the times they are a changin. Get with the program.

The (Buddhist, and perhaps commonsense) view that animal life is by nature full of painful experiences which enable us to develop understanding and insight, suggests another value of predation, for prey themselves: it enables individuals and communities to learn and evolve. A community adapts to its environment in part via natural selection, and individuals who survive attempts at predation can gain better understandings of their environment.

Many of our actions towards other animals–confinement and intensive farming are examples–remove this “good” from predation, by denying communities and individuals the chance to benefit from their most terrifying experiences.